Episode: 342 - Frugal Living or Cheapskate?
Subscribe to Simplify My Money:
https://www.debtfreedad.com/newsletters/simplify-my-money
Have you ever skipped a tip, returned a gift, or brought your own snacks to an event thinking you were just being smart with your money? There's a fine line between being frugal and being cheap, and understanding this distinction can lead to healthier financial habits. Often, discussions about money habits lead to debates, and in this piece, we aim to challenge your money mindset and spark a conversation on this topic.
Finding Balance: Frugal vs. Cheap
When people hear about someone living debt-free or seeing them implement certain cost-saving measures, there's often a stereotype that they're either frugal or cheap. However, enjoying life without the burden of unnecessary expenses doesn't necessarily mean lacking fun or being restricted. It's about intentional spending and understanding your values.
Values Dictate Spending
Your spending habits should align with your values. For example, if you don't value expensive cars, then driving a reliable vehicle with a few scratches shouldn't label you as frugal or cheap. It's about directing money towards what you truly care about.
Areas to Watch: Frugality vs. Cheapness
Clothing: Consider your values when deciding on clothes. Some may prefer to buy generic brands that still offer quality, while others take joy in thrift shopping.
DIY Projects: Sometimes attempting to save by doing it yourself can backfire, leading to more expenses. Evaluate the risks and your skills before deciding.
Food and Ingredients: Generic brands sometimes suffice, but there are instances where investing a bit more makes a significant difference in quality.
Dining and Tipping: Skipping a tip to save money crosses into cheap territory. If you go out, include tipping in your budget. Similarly, when you can, choosing to cook meals at home is sensible frugality.
Coupons and Discounts: Using a coupon isn't inherently cheap, but consider context. For example, perhaps skip it on a first date if first impressions are important to you.
Honesty and Integrity: Examples like lying about a child’s age for discounts may save money, but at the cost of integrity.
Conclusion: Embrace Intentional Spending
Being frugal means being intentional and strategic with your spending, ensuring your purchasing decisions align with your values. It’s not about deprivation but about wisely managing finances to maximize life experiences. Understanding this distinction can lead to better financial control and long-term happiness.
If you're ready to break free from financial stress and want to build a stable financial future, exploring steps to simplify your money management is a strong first step. Evaluate what’s truly important to you, and make decisions that reflect those priorities—whether that's spending on experiences, saving for the future, or investing in quality where it matters. Embrace intentionality, and watch how it transforms your financial journey.
Resources Mentioned
The Totally Awesome Debt Freedom Planner https://www.debtfreedad.com/planner
To learn how to take the stress out of your finances so you can breathe again, follow this link: https://www.debtfreedad.com/lwp-masterclass-opt-in-page-podcast
Connect With Brad
Website- https://www.debtfreedad.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thedebtfreedad
Private Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/debtfreedad
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/debtfreedad/
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@debt_free_dad
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bradnelson-debtfreedad2751/featured
Thanks For Listening
Like what you hear? Please, subscribe on the platform you listen to most: Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Spotify, Tune-In, Stitcher, YouTube Music, YouTube
We LOVE feedback, and also helps us grow our podcast! Please leave us an honest review in Apple Podcasts, we read every single one.
Is there someone that you think would benefit from the Debt Free Dad podcast? Please, share this episode with them on your favorite social network!
Transcript:
Brad Nelson:
Have you ever skipped a tip, returned a gift or brought your own snacks to an event, thinking you were just being smart with your money? Now, there's a fine line between being frugal and being cheap, and today we're walking straight down the middle of it and in this episode we're going to be challenging your money mindset and maybe even sparking a few debates here along the way. Stay tuned.
Announcer:
You're listening to the Debt-Free Dad podcast with Brad Nelson. Brad and his co-hosts experience the anxiety of living paycheck to paycheck before learning the fundamentals of financial success. They are now on a mission to empower regular people to pay off their debt for good and enjoy happier, less stressful lives. Keep listening for inspirational interviews, tips, tricks and practical advice to gain financial freedom.
Brad Nelson:
Hey guys, welcome to today's show. I am Brad Nelson, the founder of Debt-Free Debt. I paid off about $45,000 of debt. I've been debt-free now for more than 12 years. I've also been fortunate to help thousands of other people save and pay off tens of millions of dollars with the work that we do here at Debt Free Debt.
Amber Taylor:
And I'm Amber Taylor and my husband and I saved and paid off $54,000 in just 20 months and I've been living debt free outside of our mortgage.
Ryan Nelson:
I'm Ryan Nelson, and my wife and I paid off $160,000 over eight years while we were raising three kids.
Brad Nelson:
So, guys, after listening to this episode, if you are ready to take things to the next level, you're ready to break free from living paycheck to paycheck, you want to reduce financial stress, build a savings and finally start paying off your debt for good, but maybe you're just not quite sure where to get started. We've created some incredible free resources here at Debt Free Dad that can help you get there, and we'll be sharing some more details about those later on in today's episode. So, guys, today's the debate is about frugal versus cheap, and I got to say right off the bat, when people hear, or even our social media content, or here we live debt free or I have no debt, they immediately will have this stereotype that I am frugal or I am cheap, and maybe you guys have shared that same experience, but it is, it's almost an immediate thing. Well, you must not have any fun or you must not like to spend any money. And I got to say I think that's like the furthest thing from the truth and that's why I love this conversation today.
Ryan Nelson:
Yeah, I'm super cheap with some stuff, just so you know. Well, I'm excited.
Amber Taylor:
I think it depends. It depends what I value. So like I might, you know, cheap with some stuff, not cheap with other stuff. It all depends on my values.
Brad Nelson:
Well, I think that's the key right there. It's based on your values. And I think, man, when I was thinking about this and I'm like looking at my life, I don't feel like there's an area that I'm frugal or cheap with. It's just I just don't spend any money on things I don't care about anymore. That's the thing. Like people might look at that and say, well, I care about that, you don't spend money on that. That means you're frugal or you're cheap and it just means not.
Brad Nelson:
I just don't really care Like vehicles, for instance, for years and years and years, and even today, I really don't care too much about the vehicle I drive, just as long as it's reliable and it can get me to where I want to go. But if it's got some rust and some scratches and some and the interior isn't so great In fact the pickup truck I just recently sold, the ceiling fabric was coming down in some areas I just didn't care. It wasn't. I guess I don't call it frugal or cheap. It's just like you said, Amber, I just don't necessarily put a ton of value into having like a pristine vehicle. It's just as long as it runs right and it gets me to where I need to go.
Brad Nelson:
So, in saying that there's a real difference between being smart with your money and letting money control your life, and frugality, in my mind, is being more intentional, whereas cheapness is more I don't know that I would say fear-based, but it's just man, you're just being cheap right Now. Ryan, you said there's things that you're cheap at, so I wanna go through this a little bit and talk about some of these examples. I've written up some examples here from people that I know have done these things. Some of them I've done, and I'm just curious to see what ones you're going to put in. So, Ryan, I'm going to let you, because you already said, there's a lot of things that you're cheap with.
Ryan Nelson:
I think a big area for me is I mean, it used to not be, but I you may have seen those reels or those TikToks it's when you graduate to thinking the clothes at Costco look nice and it's like I don't care, I just like I have shirts and pants, and so there's certain things that I'll look at pictures and we'll look at pictures and I'm like, oh my God, I've had that for five years, you know, and some people would say that's cheap.
Ryan Nelson:
But I do think, after you kind of explained it, I mean I think it does go back to that and I mean again, I, I don't have things that are terrible, you know, it's not things that are just torn up or all that. I just don't find a lot of value in going and buying nice clothes. Now, when I was younger, I did, I used to go to the mall, I used to want to have, you know, this and that. But I think, as I've gotten older, there's just certain things it's like and again, part of it is just like I go to the store, you go to the mall. It's like I'm not spending $80 on a pair of pants. I'm sorry, I just can't do care. You know, I'm okay being cheap in that area in my life.
Amber Taylor:
Yeah, I think that's an age thing too. Yeah, right, age thing.
Brad Nelson:
And is that just like a man thing too?
Brad Nelson:
Yeah, there's a lot of men that I know that are that way they could care less Like I got. I have a friend of mine, his name's Tim I'm going to call him out right now and he, this dude, I swear I'm like kind of similar to you, right, I'll buy nicer clothes and things you know obviously not like super nice, I guess, in terms of expensive. I don't want to have like just grubby clothes all the time. But this guy goes to the extremes Like he. He wears things that have holes in them constantly and just you know things that he needs to replace socks like his socks mismatch. It's like that is to the extreme of cheap. He even admitted like I've had underwear that I've had for years and years and years. It's like OK, there's a point of where you're being again smart with money and then there's a point where it's like yikes, right.
Amber Taylor:
I don't know, that's a man thing Like. Sometimes I throw out my husband's underwear. I'm like you still wearing these Ew, and I throw them out. So it happens. I mean he has gotten better at throwing out his holy socks and stuff, but I'm super frugal when it comes. I'm not going to say cheap, because when it comes to shopping for clothes and stuff, super frugal and I love bargains and I love going to like thrift stores and stuff like that. So yeah, I'm not buying full price clothes. Very rarely on my buy full price clothes.
Brad Nelson:
I think there are things that I'm willing to spend some money on, though, when it comes to like things like clothes, like like when I buy a pair of shoes. I don't buy a cheap pair of shoes Like I will buy a hundred $120 pair of shoes Even for some people that buy like well, that's not really that expensive but for me to spend 100 to 120 hours on a pair of shoes, like I know that that pair of shoes gonna last me a year or two as long as I take care of them and I pay.
Amber Taylor:
I buy 10, 20 pairs of shoes yeah, well, right.
Brad Nelson:
And again, like if you're a female, right, you got outfits and things that you wear. Like you would never buy like one color, specific pair of shoes and probably spend well, there might be some people out there who might do it where you'd spend hundreds of dollars on that pair of shoes, like you're going to go to a cheaper shoe store because you're only going to wear them for a couple of events here and there. Right, yeah, yeah. So in that terms, I think you're being smart. Like for me to pair of jeans, like Ryan. Now, you mentioned like you don't spend a lot of money on a pair of jeans, like I will, I'll spend a hundred bucks because I'm going to fall apart on me.
Brad Nelson:
So I think there are some things. When it comes to like clothing items, I'm definitely not cheap on. Same thing, like when it comes to like vehicles, if you're going to buy tires, I don't always elect for the cheapest tires that I can find. Now, again, if your budget only allows you for that's one thing. But if you're doing it and you have the money to spend on more quality tires, in my opinion you should get the more quality tires because they're going to last you longer. So I think there is this balance of cheap and frugal.
Brad Nelson:
Any other ones that you guys have, where you feel like you're that you're really, really cheap on.
Amber Taylor:
You know, what happens to us often is I'm super cheap DIY projects, like I'm like no, we could do that, yeah, you know. And then we end up spending way more or have to call somebody to fix it. So sometimes it bites us in the butt. Sometimes, it works out.
Brad Nelson:
Yeah, that's a big one. Right now we're getting ready to just minor updates in our bathrooms and there are things that I could do. But I'm thinking in my head is, man, if this gets messed up, it's going to cost me way more money to have someone come in and fix it, versus just say, spend the money and have them come in and do it. There are certain projects that I tend not to get involved with, especially when it comes to plumbing and things like that. I can do minor stuff, but, man, plumbing is not my thing. Anytime I've ever tried to do it. It doesn't go well. So I've learned my lesson. It's like it's better just to bring in a professional and just have them do the work. Yes, you're going to pay a little bit of money for that, but it saves me time and the frustration and having to figure it out myself. So I think you know, when it comes to DIY, yeah, I think you have to balance out like what are the risks if this does not go well, and is it worth it to be cheap or more frugal to do it yourself? But you know, you talk about things like painting and light fixture change outs and things like that. Like those things are super easy to do, but when you get into the more of the mechanicals of things, it get interesting for sure. So let's run down a few other ones, guys. So here's a good one.
Brad Nelson:
And Ryan, I don't know if you remember this, I remember grandma used to do this, taking extra condiments and supplies from restaurants to bring to the house. So, like you know, I remember grandma like taking the sugars and taking the extra ketchup packets or extra silverware and all that stuff from restaurants and putting them in person. And I remember mom yelling at her you can't do that, you can't do that. Well, yes, I can, I paid for the food. Mom yelling at her, you can't do that you can't do that?
Amber Taylor:
well, yes, I can. I paid for the food. I will admittedly say I have filled a ketchup bottle at my house with packets so you have definitely crossed the line of cheap I have crossed the line. Yes, I mean we were struggling, but so I made it work.
Ryan Nelson:
I got got half a ketchup bottle. Right, it takes some commitment.
Amber Taylor:
Right, yeah, it really does I was like I'm not throwing these out, this is going in my bottle.
Brad Nelson:
Oh, too funny. Yeah, that's a good one. Here's another one. We've talked a little bit about this one on the show, but buying name brand food ingredients versus buying generic. Now this is a good debate, um it depends on what it is it depends on.
Brad Nelson:
I agree it depends on what it is. There are just some things like I'm all about aldi here in the united states united. I mean I love aldi, you can save some good money, but there are some things at aldi that I won't buy at aldi because it just doesn't taste quite the same as like a name brand, ingredient yeah, like mustard is mustard.
Amber Taylor:
To me it doesn't matter what it is. Yeah, ketchup, I think I got to go Heinz for the most part Peanut butter. Here in Canada it's got to be Kraft, kraft peanut butter. I can't buy any other peanut butter.
Brad Nelson:
Yeah, peanut butter can get interesting.
Amber Taylor:
Yeah, yeah.
Brad Nelson:
And ketchup can too. It just depends.
Amber Taylor:
I'm sure people have bought the cats up brand that's only on your side of the border.
Brad Nelson:
It's a little bit different than the regular ketchup right.
Ryan Nelson:
This is a big one for me here too. Number one I love to cook and I'm all about trying to save some money. I don't want to call people out, but I have had people where I go and I make something at their house with the stuff they've bought and there is a 100% noticeable difference in taste and texture and how it is, and it's like man, this doesn't quite taste like yours and it's bottom line. It's because of that. There are just certain things depending on what you're making, and I do think, like this goes into like cooking If you do cook and you are trying to save money, don't always just go for cheap, because cheap might be like this isn't very good, whereas if you just spend a little more, you know and like you, aldi has great things, all stores have great things, and then there's just certain things that I've learned that I don't buy.
Ryan Nelson:
There's certain butter I buy. There's certain flour I buy. You know there's certain things I buy that I know make the stuff taste the way it should taste. People do, I think, buy a lot of, you know, go to the store and try to be as frugal or cheap as possible, and then they're just like, yeah, this isn't as good. But if you just change the ingredients, you'd be surprised. Oh, this completely changes the taste of this.
Brad Nelson:
Right yeah, and you do have to kind of go on a little bit of an adventure of trying things Like. And you do have to kind of go on a little bit of an adventure of trying things Like some of our. You know we have kids in our house and you know they don't like generic brands, certain snacks and things, because they taste different, but for some odd reason they love the generic brand of string cheese versus the name brand string cheese, which is so strange to me, For me for coffee, like I don't go out for coffee unless I'm on travel, right.
Brad Nelson:
So I loved Dunkin' Donuts coffee and when I was living paycheck to paycheck, that was a place that I would stop and frequent and get my coffee there. Well, I don't do that anymore. I just make it at home. So I buy Dunkin' Donuts coffee because I like it, right, but it is more expensive than obviously a lot of the generic brands or some of the brands that aren't as popular, but I'm willing to spend the money there because I like it. So I guess you could say I'm frugal in the sense that I'm not going to go out for coffee, but I'm not going to completely give it up and I'm just going to meet it halfway and at least buy the coffee and just make it at home. Here's another one Bringing your own snacks to a movie theater or event. Okay, I'm guilty.
Amber Taylor:
It's more than the movie Right To buy their snacks.
Brad Nelson:
To buy it all. Yeah, exactly yeah. Who hasn't done this? I mean, I think we can all agree that this is being very frugal and, heck, there's even been times I've even brought a cocktail to the movie. They don't know what's in that cup. Here's what I can't.
Amber Taylor:
Oh man, this one irks me, but not tipping at a restaurant to save money.
Brad Nelson:
Big negative. You should not be doing this. If you can't tip and go out to a restaurant, you should not be going to that restaurant. Right, yeah, that's just a no brainer. We have friends who are, you know, bartenders or waitresses or waiters and they share these stories.
Brad Nelson:
People, some people just don't tip. That's crazy to me. If you go to a service type establishment like, you have to expect that you're going to tip. So yes, you are being cheap if you're not tipping. Now it's one thing. I guess if you get horrendous service and I think there's probably maybe only one or two times in my lifetime that I can think of that, I probably didn't tip because of that. But one or two times in my lifetime that I can think of that, I probably didn't tip because of that, but it made them very aware of it. It wasn't like something I just kind of left them in the dark about. I mean they were, they knew right, um, so I mean I can understand those particular situations, but if you're getting halfway decent service like you should be leaving a tip.
Ryan Nelson:
I'm going to throw one in here and goes with that, because I drive DoorDash is uh, you shouldn't be ordering DoorDash if you don't want to tip either. Yes, yeah, and that's a huge debate, huge debate on social media, and I'm not going to sit here and say what you should tip or how much you should tip, but if your intention is to not tip, then you shouldn't be ordering it. I feel like that's cheap and regardless of how those people are paid or you know, I don't do it to rely on the money, I do it for extra money. Regardless of how they're paid or what you think or whatever, it doesn't matter. You are not having to go out to wherever it is that you ordered it from. They're bringing it to you. As long as everything's right, you should tip something.
Brad Nelson:
Now don't you have?
Ryan Nelson:
to tip when you order, though. Yeah, you typically tip ahead, and then you can modify it afterward if you had to.
Brad Nelson:
Are you finding that people do that? They'll put a tip on there and then they modify it and take it off.
Ryan Nelson:
No, I don't really run into it a lot. I would say the vast majority of people have tipped. I don't. I think there's only been a handful of times where they don't. But the argument out there is you know, you choose to do that job, so therefore I shouldn't have to tip. And it's like let's just be in cheap, Right? You say that to a waitress, you say it to everybody. Like you choose to do that job, I don't have to tip you what. That's not how it works, that's not how it works.
Brad Nelson:
Yeah yeah, we've done a whole episode, by the way, on tipping. Has it gone to extreme levels for certain things? But yeah, when it comes to a service business or hospitality type business, I mean tipping is just a, it's just a known thing. You got to figure that in. In my opinion, don't be cheaping out and not doing those things. I wish Katie was on the episode for this one, but using a coupon on the first date.
Brad Nelson:
I don't know, I guess I this is walking a line. This is more than frugal or being cheap. This is like first impressions type stuff, right, I don't know't know. What do you guys think? Did you throw in a coupon on the first date?
Ryan Nelson:
I don't think so it's so hard because, like I'd say, like when I was younger, no, now that I'm the age I'm at, I'm thinking like you know, if, for whatever reason, I found myself where I had to be dating again, I just don't care. I mean, I don't know, I think it depends. I would not call that a hard no or whatever. I just you know.
Amber Taylor:
Well, and I love a good coupon, it's the first date part that's questionable.
Brad Nelson:
Yeah, maybe a second date, yeah, yeah. I think it's more first impressions for me. Rather than being frugal or cheap I don't know that I want to put that first impression out there right away. I bought this coupon buy one, get one. Here's another one. Filling up on free samples at Costco or like a Sam's Club and calling in lunch Check Yep, let's do it. I think anyone who's a Costco or Sam's Club and call me at lunch Check Yep, let's do it. I think anyone who's a Costco or Sam's Club member yep, that's what we're all in there for. That's why they do it to get you in there. But, crazy enough, you're really not being frugal, because every time I go do that, I'm leaving with $200 to $300 worth of stuff in my car.
Amber Taylor:
Absolutely so. I mean, eh, what's a little lunch?
Brad Nelson:
Pretty sure Costco's winning in that one.
Ryan Nelson:
Yeah, my favorite is hey, yeah, these 12-pack of kielbasa's are only $5.98. And I'm like, hmm, yeah, I'm not buying them. That's what I pretty much do. It's like you kind of have that look on your eye like, oh interesting.
Amber Taylor:
And in your head.
Brad Nelson:
You're like I'm not buying that. Do you ever feel somewhat guilty, though, when you're sitting there and you're like you're eating? You're like, yeah, this is really good. They're telling you about the sale.
Ryan Nelson:
You just kind of walk right, right, exactly. Thanks for the free, the free food.
Amber Taylor:
I'm out I have no guilt there, no shame. You're just on to the next one. Yep, what's next?
Brad Nelson:
or how about the ones you like? Try and you're just like that's gross. All right, next one wearing designer knockoffs. This is definitely not up my alley, because I don't care less but I don't really care.
Amber Taylor:
I mean again, I shop at thrift stores and stuff. So if something happens, there's a knockoff there and it looks nice and it fits nice, I'm buying it. I don't care, I don't think it's cheap, but I'm not buying it for the name either. So right.
Brad Nelson:
Packing lunch every day instead of eating out with the co-workers. Oh, this one's easy for all of us. I'm going frugal on that one, that's that's a good choice, especially if you're wanting to save money and get out of debt. Buying the absolute cheapest toilet paper that falls apart.
Ryan Nelson:
That's cheap. That's cheap for sure I only do. I only got to deal with that at work. You know you go to work, work's got the the one ply stuff Right.
Amber Taylor:
You're ripping off all the toilet paper Right Exactly. Well, that's just it right, You're using way more.
Brad Nelson:
You're probably they're probably spending as just as much because people are using way more of it. Yeah, all right. And then last one we got as an example is lying about your child's age to get them in for free or at a cheap price.
Amber Taylor:
You can only do this for so long, because the kids at least. No, I'm not, I'm this age.
Brad Nelson:
You know what I mean and that's the worst when they do that. Yeah, she's only five, I'm six. Shut up yeah, I think that's cheap.
Amber Taylor:
I think, it's cheap, but I've definitely done it.
Brad Nelson:
I'm not going to lie, Granted. You know, it's not like I'm, you know, saying they're five years younger than what they really are. They're like right on the line. It's like, yeah, we can let this one slide, are? They're like right on the line? It's like, yeah, we can let this one slide.
Brad Nelson:
So, in ending this, guys, I think it goes back to what you said, Amber, about value, and I think that's where you really got to evaluate cheap versus being frugal. And I think that's what we talk a lot about on the show is that, you know, just because you don't want to buy something or participate in something or you're willing to save some money in certain areas, it doesn't necessarily mean you're cheap. It just means that your values have changed. And I think it's like you know what I said when I opened it up. People immediately will put the stereotype on you that you're being cheap or frugal when you're debt free or you're wanting to improve your finances or you're living on a budget, and the reality is is that you're just becoming more intentional, you know, with your spending. But there definitely can be that fine line of are we being really cheap here to save money or get out of debt? Are we being more intentional and being frugal.
Brad Nelson:
All right, guys, if you're ready to break free from living paycheck to paycheck, you want to reduce financial stress, you want to build savings and finally pay off debt for good, but again, you're not sure where to get started. Don't worry, we've got you covered. Simplify my Money is sent each and every Sunday to your email. It is your step-by-step roadmap to better financial control, and you're also going to learn some easy-to-follow strategies to manage your money effectively stress-free money decisions that are going to help you simplify your financial life with proven tips that work, and you're going to gain the tools and the confidence to tackle your financial goals head on. You can sign up for Simplify my Money by clicking on the link at the top of that may be. Let's talk about debt. Let's talk about debt.
Amber Taylor:
Tune into Debt Free Debt, tune into Debt Free Debt. And that's all I mean this time for the celebrations of the show. First we have Nick. We finished our emergency fund today. By next month hospital bills will be paid off and we are projected to have four other debts paid off by the end of the year.
Brad Nelson:
Yeah, that's incredible. Awesome job, guys. Brenda. She says I've paid off $39,525 in debt Savings. I've got $1,300 and hoping to get $2,000 by the end of the year. Brenda, that is amazing progress, great job.
Ryan Nelson:
And Melinda still working out in our emergency fund. We're close to start paying things off on our snowball Awesome.
Brad Nelson:
Way to go, melinda. Hey guys, thanks for joining us on today's episode. Hey, we get that getting out of debt isn't easy, but with your hard work and consistency, and hopefully with our help, we promise you guys, this can be some of the best work that you guys do in your entire life. Again, thanks for joining us on today's show and we will see you guys on the next episode.
Announcer:
Thanks for listening to the Debt-Free Dad podcast. Connect with us on Facebook, tiktok, youtube and Instagram. Just search Debt-Free Dad. If you found value in today's episode, please leave us a rating and review. We so appreciate it For resources, show notes and links mentioned in today's show. Visit DebtFreeDadcom. Catch you next week.
